Comments on: Labels and IMAP are incompatible (right?) http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/ what's this button do? Thu, 24 Jun 2010 07:14:17 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: AJ http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1614 AJ Fri, 03 Aug 2007 20:22:11 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1614 This isn't my area of technical expertise, but from this _user's_ perspective, I had to choose between the labeling (cross-referencing, really) of GMail, and the speed I get with Thunderbird/IMAP. My issue with GMail was speed. I click to read a message and then switch to reading CNN while it loads. But I *LOVE* cross-referencing my mail with it's labeling feature. Need/want both! This isn’t my area of technical expertise, but from this _user’s_ perspective, I had to choose between the labeling (cross-referencing, really) of GMail, and the speed I get with Thunderbird/IMAP. My issue with GMail was speed. I click to read a message and then switch to reading CNN while it loads. But I *LOVE* cross-referencing my mail with it’s labeling feature. Need/want both!

]]> By: Trip http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1622 Trip Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:01:02 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1622 Continuing onward from the Thunderbird 2 idea, I see a possibility of Google creating their own Gmail client for Windows, Mac, etc., with both IMAP and this flagging functionality fully supported. The amount of flags a message would have would be completely independent of which folder it is in. So you could have the best of all worlds, physical folders for message storage, and also multi-flagging, which would locate these single messages based on label selection and/or search (no need for multiple copies of messages then). This might force the hand of those whose clients didn't support the multiple flag/search functions of the Gmail client. I know that suggestion way seem a backwards way of bringing Gmail IMAP to the masses, but maybe improved flagging and search functionality across the board is what all these aging email clients need to refresh their appeal. Anyone agree? Continuing onward from the Thunderbird 2 idea, I see a possibility of Google creating their own Gmail client for Windows, Mac, etc., with both IMAP and this flagging functionality fully supported. The amount of flags a message would have would be completely independent of which folder it is in. So you could have the best of all worlds, physical folders for message storage, and also multi-flagging, which would locate these single messages based on label selection and/or search (no need for multiple copies of messages then).

This might force the hand of those whose clients didn’t support the multiple flag/search functions of the Gmail client.

I know that suggestion way seem a backwards way of bringing Gmail IMAP to the masses, but maybe improved flagging and search functionality across the board is what all these aging email clients need to refresh their appeal.

Anyone agree?

]]> By: Ken http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1618 Ken Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:11:15 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1618 Thunderbird 2's custom labels are implemented on IMAP servers as custom flags. I don't know about previous versions of Thunderbird -- they didn't break in the face of custom flags but they also didn't appear to expose them in any way. Thunderbird 2′s custom labels are implemented on IMAP servers as custom flags.

I don’t know about previous versions of Thunderbird — they didn’t break in the face of custom flags but they also didn’t appear to expose them in any way.

]]> By: Ryan http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1610 Ryan Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:07:17 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1610 How would you access custom flags using, say, Thunderbird? How would you access custom flags using, say, Thunderbird?

]]> By: Anonymous http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1621 Anonymous Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:22:13 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1621 Nice catch Ken. http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3501.html (see section 2.3.2. Flags Message Attribute) Also, the SEARCH command works with flags nicely. So it seems labels and folders can work quite nicely within the spec. Nice catch Ken.
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc3501.html
(see section 2.3.2. Flags Message Attribute)

Also, the SEARCH command works with flags nicely. So it seems labels and folders can work quite nicely within the spec.

]]> By: Ken http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1609 Ken Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:52:25 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1609 Don't labels in IMAP translate pretty directly into FLAGS? That's what I've been using, anyway. Don’t labels in IMAP translate pretty directly into FLAGS? That’s what I’ve been using, anyway.

]]> By: Ryan http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1617 Ryan Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:22:29 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1617 Alright, so what happens when you want to delete a message? You have to find it in each label (folder) and delete it? That's like saying in order to delete something from Gmail you have to go in and remove every label from it. I suppose if you take the view that the message is really only in one folder (your All Mail folder) then deleting the message from that folder is a true delete while deleting it from the other folders is simply label management. But that's still pretty confusing. If I find the message under label "A" then I have to go and find that message in the "All Mail" folder in order to delete it. You'd also have to make sure that all of the labels (folders) that contain the message get the memo that the message is no longer there. Presumably IMAP handles that well enough since it's built to have multiple clients accessing the same mailbox, so it could simply treat it as though another user agent removed those messages. I don't know, it would work...but it would be awkward. Alright, so what happens when you want to delete a message? You have to find it in each label (folder) and delete it? That’s like saying in order to delete something from Gmail you have to go in and remove every label from it. I suppose if you take the view that the message is really only in one folder (your All Mail folder) then deleting the message from that folder is a true delete while deleting it from the other folders is simply label management. But that’s still pretty confusing. If I find the message under label “A” then I have to go and find that message in the “All Mail” folder in order to delete it. You’d also have to make sure that all of the labels (folders) that contain the message get the memo that the message is no longer there. Presumably IMAP handles that well enough since it’s built to have multiple clients accessing the same mailbox, so it could simply treat it as though another user agent removed those messages.

I don’t know, it would work…but it would be awkward.

]]> By: koblas http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1611 koblas Thu, 26 Apr 2007 05:24:37 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1611 IMAP doesn't have a MOVE operation - per rfc2060 There is COPY and DELETE operation, which some clients use to "move" a message. Thus tagging is COPY .. COPY .. COPY .. if you want ot remove a tag just DELETE the message from a FOLDER (aka TAG) that has the message -- don't forget the EXPUNGE to really make it dissapear. COPY doesn't even work based on message ID, it's based on message index in a folder. Make sense? IMAP doesn’t have a MOVE operation – per rfc2060

There is COPY and DELETE operation, which some clients use to “move” a message. Thus tagging is
COPY .. COPY .. COPY .. if you want ot remove a tag just
DELETE the message from a FOLDER (aka TAG) that has the message — don’t forget the EXPUNGE to really make it dissapear.

COPY doesn’t even work based on message ID, it’s based on message index in a folder.

Make sense?

]]> By: Ryan http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1615 Ryan Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:25:52 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1615 I suppose. That means IMAP clients have to load the headers for every message in the mailbox in order to be able to do any kind of label view. Not the end of the world, but I imagine it could take a while on first load if you have 30,000+ messages in your folders. I suppose. That means IMAP clients have to load the headers for every message in the mailbox in order to be able to do any kind of label view. Not the end of the world, but I imagine it could take a while on first load if you have 30,000+ messages in your folders.

]]> By: miles http://blog.unclehulka.com/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1619 miles Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:48:22 +0000 http://unclehulka.com/ryan/blog/archives/2007/04/23/labels-and-imap-are-incompatible-right/#comment-1619 Could you make T'Birds labeling method the de facto standard and prepend a header containing the label information (I think T-bird stores them in X-Mozilla-Status: headers) Could you make T’Birds labeling method the de facto standard and prepend a header containing the label information (I think T-bird stores them in X-Mozilla-Status: headers)

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